STANDARD COLORS N MARKINGS:

http://hometown.aol.com/heisstwessen/page14.html

Breed for the standard especially if selling them, why spread junk over this world, they will never make the AKC in the States!!

Why try to ruin a good breed of dog that has been this color of blk/red, blk/tan/ blk/brown.....sables of red. grey, black only.

No whites or pandas, no Kings, or Shilohs, rare breeds in their own registry and stay there.

Long coats are ok but not desireable, but prettier than a pinto tiny pony or freaky white rats....... personal thought on breeding and buying top shepherds to keep it the way it was founded.....?????

Good post thanks shep!

I agree with you guys. Nothing makes me madder than breeding something other than the standard conformation and colour. Those pintos or Whites won't make it in Canada either.

What I hate is when I am walking with Zeus and they ask me "Is he a King Shepherd" and I tell them he is not. I try to educate them on that he is a GSD and he is of Canadian and American Lines. I like to tell them that the Kings and Shiloh's are the rejects of the bunch and that they are a fad like Cockodoodles or Labradoodles are and if they like GSD's that is what they should be looking for Either American/Canadian or German styles and not those wannabe type of GSD breeds.

Thats my 2 cents

Shiola shepherds are nice, but people shouldn't breed them or try to class them as a GSD.

As for whites, you shouldn't breed them on purpose. But people do, and I own 2 myself.

"no good dog is a bad color" max von stephanitz. i do believe said this...

yes the standards should be followed but most of the rare colors or the whites are bred for personality or people just want them. most of the dogs breeds of today are because of what the people want anymore. it doesn't matter the color of the dog but what the dog is like in personality and loyalty is what i believe in.

yes that is true, but you should stick to the breed standards. Personally i think white and panda should be a different breed!

Why it's so important that breeders breed by the standard is mentioned in the article. Sure, a "bad color" or "bad marking" GSD is a great and wonderful pet, but...just don't breed one on purpose.
If people want a "bad color" dog, there are plenty of them in rescue groups. Sometimes good breeders may even have some, but they sell them as pet quality.
I have to agree with Amanda that the panda and white should be a different breed...

they should yes, but if ya think about it..the panda and the white shepherd originally came from a german shepherd.but the way people are changing everything...they probably should be considered a different breed even if their structure is similar...and the only difference is the color of the dog

yup!

Someone on here mentioned once that an old southern secret was that the panda GSD was made by breeding a GSD with a Border Collie. Not sure how accurate that is, but from the looks of those dogs it looks possible.

its possible but my black german shepherd female had a little of puppies with my male.she had one that didn't survive but it had white paws, and a white face. it was a little boy and most of my puppies that she had,they had at least a touch of white

wow yah i think thats how they were made!

My uncle's GSD India has 6 week old puppies right now. When he got her he didn't realize that she was pregnant. She came from a rescue group.
He was going to breed her anyways, which I think is . He just took her to the vet a couple of weeks ago. The vet said that she is malnourished, has heartworms, and other worms. My uncle wants to report that rescue group that he got India from, and I hope he does.
At least now my uncle can get India spayed.

yup!

Stephanyfaith wrote:

its possible but my black german shepherd female had a little of puppies with my male.she had one that didn't survive but it had white paws, and a white face. it was a little boy and most of my puppies that she had,they had at least a touch of white

Irish Spotting Gene explains why the pups had white.

As for von Stephanitz saying ''no good dog is a bad color'', that is true. However, whites were culled. He preferred dark colors on the dogs.

Long coats arent exceptable because they don't have the undercoat. They couldn't be used for working because their coat wouldn't stand up to the elements.

That being said, I agree with sticking to the ORIGINAL standard. I'm more worried about structure than color though. I really don't like the structure of the dogs we see in the American Show Ring. In all honesty, they do not fit the true standard. Right in the standard it says that the toplines should NOT be sloping...yet the Amercian Show line breeders continue to breed for that...

I also personally hate hearing people say "Black and Red" or "Black and Silver"
Those are each Black and Tan. The red is just rich tan pigment and the silver is faded tan pigment. However, each is still Black and Tan.

I think whites and Pandas should be a different breed... I call one of my whites an AWS

As for 'Red and black' and such... I only say it because I like the darker coloured tans. I can't normaly be bothered to type 'Black with rich tan pigment' every time.

I'm not talking about when you say you prefer 'black and reds'
I just get irked when someone says "I have a Black and Red" and act like it's a completely different color than Black and Tan.

Oh, yes , I see what you mean

Hi

I have a Black/tan GSD and white shepherds. I love them both - but I too agree that whites should be a different breed. I am a member of United White Shepherd Association, and I know for a fact that our president have petitioned AKC to separate whites from GSDs, with a different breeding standard, so our beautiful whites can compete in comformation. (no answer from AKC yet - I won't hold my breath though) UKC already recognizes "white shepherd" as a separate breed. Some European countries also recognize them as "Swiss White Shepherds".... I think AKC should follow suites.

Incidentally white coat in GSD was not disqualifying fault until WWII Era. Apparently German Nazi's thought white coat GSDs as "weak" and "substandard" so they disqualified them. For whatever the reason, AKC decided to adapt it as well. I know, it's nothing to do with this discussion but I thought it was an kinda interesting trivia....

Missy

I don't think any pure breed dog should intentionally be bred outside its breed standard. There will be "undesirable" colors, sizes and coat lengths that come up as genetic mutations. They can be great dogs and should go to new homes either S/N'd or with a S/N contract. Whites happen, Pandas happen, Livers happen, really long hair happens. I just don't think that's what we should be shooting for as a goal.

And "designer" dogs, labradoodles, cockapoos, are just a way for fanciers to separate uninformed people from a big chunk of change, for a mutt.

That said, I personally hate what the American GSD fancy has done to the breed. Give me a solidly built European dog over its American counterpart any day.

Max Von Stephanitz, the founder of GSD thought the color of GSDs to be unimportant, as long as the dog demonstrated working ability. I tend to agree with him.

Whites could occur naturally and linebreeding them to enhance these characteristics are no different from any other breeding programs (keep in mind that white coats were not disqualifying fault until late 1930s)

Even after the ban from AKC comformation ring, there were always breeders who appreciated the beauty of the white dogs and continued to breed them.

Because of the exclusion from most GSD breeding programs the whites rather quickly evolved into distinct type, and eventually into separate breed (except in the eyes of AKC)

I think it's time to recognize White shepherd as a separate breed. Whether you prefer traditional GSD colors or whites, the truth is that white shepherds are very capable, beautiful and loyal canine breed that should have their own place in AKC.

Here, here.

missyntc wrote:

Max Von Stephanitz, the founder of GSD thought the color of GSDs to be unimportant, as long as the dog demonstrated working ability. I tend to agree with him.

Yet Whites were often culled even in his time. I always found that a bit contradicting.